Filmmaker Joe O’Connell Discusses His Documentary About Rondo Hatton & Bob Burns

June 8, 2022

Written by Kelli Marchman McNeely

Kelli Marchman McNeely is the owner of HorrorFuel.com. She is an Executive Producer of "13 Slays Till Christmas" which is out on Digital and DVD and now streaming on Tubi. She has several other films in the works. Kelli is an animal lover and a true horror addict since the age of 9 when she saw Friday the 13th. Email: horrorfuelinfo@gmail.com

Genre documentaries, we can’t get enough of them. I sat down with doc director Joe O’Connell to discuss his new film Rondo and Bob, which delves into two movie icons, Robert “Bob” Burns and Rodon Hatton, who have earned their spots in genre history.

 

 

Robert “Bob” Burns, whose name you should be familiar with since he helped create the atmosphere of some of horror’s most iconic films, including the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Re-Animator, and The Hills Have Eyes, serving as art director. Remember that iconic mask and the bone furniture in Texas Chainsaw? That was him.

 

Rondo Hatton had a face you just couldn’t forget. The writer turned actor, who suffered from acromegaly, a form of gigantism, which made his face grow in strange ways, appeared in 28 films in the thirties and forties.

 

The documentary explores the relationship between the two men and their individual histories. And it’s out now.

 

 

Kelli: “So tell me about this documentary. Why did you choose to make it?

Joe: “My first documentary was called Danger God. It was about a B-movie stuntman, a B-movie star, and Gary Kent. And through Gary… I was writing a column for the Austin American-Statesman about the film industry, and Gary told me about Bob Burns and Bob’s having this event. He was a serial blood donor, and I think he enjoyed the humor. And he had reached the five-gallon level, so I went to the Austin blood center to interview him, and at the end of the interview, he handed me a script he’d written on Rondo and May. It was about Rondo and his wife.

 

So when I was done with my first film, I was thinking about what I might do next; I’d worked with this editor on my first film, and he suddenly started showing me this footage of Bob Burns. Then he showed me footage of that day at the blood center, and I didn’t know him then, but he was there filming it for Bob Burns, including an image that we used in the film of Bob Burns in front of a fake tombstone and he sits up and waves. So I just thought about it. I thought, “Well, Bob has created the look of classic horror with Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and other films, you know? The Hills Have Eyes, Halloween Re-Animator, in his own rights.

 

He created the look of classic horror in Texas Chainsaw Massacre, The Hills Have Eyes, The Howling and Re-Animator, and many other films. And I know he rated a movie on his own accord, but I was fascinated by his obsession with Rondo Hatton because it went deep. When Rondo was… And this is in the film. When Rondo was put in the Hall of Fame for his high school, Hillsborough High School in Tampa, Florida, Bob went and accepted the award on his behalf. So it was this obsession with this guy, and I was interested in that because the basic premise was Bob was a normal-looking guy who was very weird, and I mean that as a compliment. He was highly creative, and Rondo was a very regular guy, a very average guy who was strange-looking.

 

And so I felt like there was a story between those two things, the intersection of the stories of two guys who never met each other. Bob met Mrs. Hatton, Rondo’s widow. We recreated [inaudible 00:05:30], but Rondo was dead before Bob was probably alive, or when he was [inaudible 00:05:38]. So it’s that, and I’m interested in telling human stories. I’m interested in the horror aspects of being an art director on horror films, and I think the film’s become a love letter to horror fans. But I’m interested in that human story, which made these two guys tick, which revealed more as we made the film, particularly with Bob.

 

Talking to his family revealed a lot about him. Things would just come out. We were interviewing one guy. This is the deal about making a low-budget film like this. We interviewed one guy, and he said, “Bob, ever tell you about the time he saw a man getting killed?” “No, now we have to film that,” so we did. And you can make that kind of decision with a low-budget film. You see where it takes you with that story, and that’s a long answer to your question.”

 

Kelli: “No, no, it works, it works. I love weird myself, but I’m a little weird. But yeah, it is a fascinating thing, especially Rondo’s life. I mean, living and coping with his illness which is… You have to refresh my memory. What is it called?”

 

Joe: “It’s called acromegaly, and different people pronounce it differently. Some people say acromegaly, but I believe it’s acromegaly. It’s a pituitary gland tumor, and with Rondo, he was in World War I and hit by mustard gas. People assumed that he was having problems based on that, but it was probably not related. He just had a tumor. It’s like Andre the Giant, the wrestler… You know who that is?”

 

Kelli: “Yes.”

 

Joe: “Andre the Giant had acromegaly, but he got it at a younger age, so his entire body was big. Rondo was not that big of a guy. His face was large; that’s the main thing because it kept growing. His bones kept growing. It was just a freaky thing. It made him rather weak. It led to his early death.”

 

Kelli: “That’s sad. But I remember seeing him in things and, of course, I know who Bob is because, well, I’m me. But you said something about that it was about human nature and relationships, and it is.”

 

Joe: “Yeah. That’s kind of what I’m after. Yeah, and it’s a weird thing because the actress who plays Mary Hatton, I told her on the set more than once that she was the real star. And I don’t know if I’ve said that to people very much in interviews, but that’s kind of my thinking that she was a real force and she’s the one person who met both people. Bob Burns came to her house, and I found May Hatton a really compelling character and really powerful. We have this scene where she meets Rondo Hatton, which, to me, is one of the most important scenes in the movie because we must believe that she would be attracted to him, that she would see beneath the surface, and I think our actress, Kelsey, pulls this off really well.”

 

Kelli: “Yeah, I mean, I see what you’re talking about. I do, and it’s the character that connects everything, and that’s important in movies like this, connecting those two people you said that had never met.”

 

Joe: “Right, yeah. So their meeting was just through May. Bob met May and tried to find out everything he could about Rondo from her. She gave him the stuff like I have a copy of Rondo’s script.”

 

Kelli: “Really? I didn’t know he was that kind of writer.”

 

Joe: “Yeah. Well, I think probably because he was in Hollywood. He started writing that kind of thing. He was a journalist; that’s the way he considered himself. I don’t think he considered himself an actor, even though that’s what he’ll always be famous as, you know?”

 

Kelli: “Right, right. Tell me a little about this documentary?”

 

Joe: “Rondo, his deal was he was a reporter in Tampa, Florida, and he was sent to the set of a movie called Hell Harbor, and the director took one look at him and said, “I need to put you in the movie.” So he gave him a small part as a bar owner, and the director’s name is Henry King. He said, “If you come to Hollywood, I can make you a star based on your appearance,” He told this May. He said, “They told this just want me for my appearance.” She said, “That’s just like the starlets, the same thing, so why not go for it?”

 

And these were tough times. They were very poor, so they went to Hollywood to make money and do this, and he was in like a hundred films, and not all of them documented. Bob Burns was trying to write all the films during his life, mainly in the background, with little extra parts, but then he was in Pearl of Death, a Sherlock Holmes film, and that’s the beginning of him as The Creeper. And from that, they made some other moves where he was various versions of “The Creeper.”

 

To me, House of Horrors is a big one, and he was in a movie called The Brute Man, and The Brute Man was kind of a semi-autobiographical story. Rondo died young. They had pegged him to be the new Boris Karloff, the giant monster, just based on his appearance, and then he died too young, so it didn’t come to pass. Two of his movies were released after he died. So he’s kind of this interestingly unknown guy, but the classic horror film awards, the Rondos, have revived him, I think. That’s the significant award in classic horror and continues to get his face out in public. I think he’s got that iconic look that many artists picked up.”

 

Kelli: “Yeah, he does. I mean, he has a very, very distinct look. I think you mentioned in the movie he does kind of hit me as a gangster.”

 

Joe: “Yeah, I think Fred Olen Ray says that. Yeah, Fred Olen Ray, the director who was really… If you’re going to have Rondo experts, they were Bob Burns and Fred Olen Ray. Who was bigger, I don’t know? Yeah, Fred Olen Ray was saying that, and he’s from Tampa, so he went and researched the guy. I don’t understand why everybody has an obsession with Rondo. It’s there, it seems like, you know?

 

It could be between talent and just the personal interest of this guy’s life, which is a very interesting thing on its own.

 

I think so, too, yeah. It’s a weird deal with this movie because some people look at it… We went to Cinema Wasteland in Cleveland, and the guy in charge of Cinema Wasteland is a big fan of Bob Burns, and he was like, “Oh, I just want a movie about Bob. You don’t need the Rondo part at all,” and then I go to Horrible Imaginings in Santa Ana, California, and Miguel, the guy in charge of that festival, says, “I didn’t even know who Bob Burns was, but I’m a giant Rondo fan.” So I have these two sides that come into this that its kind of interesting. At the same time, we’re doing a traditional documentary; we’re doing recreations. Some people just want traditional documentaries, and they don’t like my recreations. Some people think the recreations are great, so I’ve got all kinds of different approaches, different reactions, depending on what people are expecting, I guess.

 

Well, it may have something to do with… I mean, if Rondo had lived now, it would’ve… But it wasn’t, so to get those moments, you have to present them in a way where people can watch them.

 

Exactly, yeah. Otherwise, it’s just a bunch of talking heads looking back at the past, and I think there’s enough. And there’s some of that in our film, but…

 

Kelli: “Well, there’s more of an impact when you see something sometimes than just hear about it.”

 

Joe: “Yeah, and a lot of the things like when the journalists are talking in the film are recreations of the journalists’ actual words. We have an old newspaper reporter who’s no longer alive sitting there talking about Rondo and its direct words from his article. I got a hard time in one case. The guy said, “Oh, this dialogue. I can’t believe they wrote this. It Sounds like a bad 1940s gangster movie,” and it’s actually what was written by the reporter in the 1940s, so it’s like, “I didn’t write it.”

 

I mean, it was a different time thing. It’s a hard line to walk to capture those moments and present them in the modern day the way they would have been back then.”

 

Kelli: “Yeah, it’s tough.”

 

Joe: “And so I can appreciate that. Yeah, but the film we made is what I intended to make.”

 

Kelli: “Well, that’s what’s important.”

 

Joe: “Yeah, it is. That’s all you can do when you’re creating stuff, you know? Do it, create it to the best of your ability, satisfy yourself, and then move on to the next project.”

 

Kelli: “You wanted to honor these two men, and you did.”

 

Joe: “Yeah, exactly. That’s the whole point of it. Yeah, and we’ve had the blessing of Bob Burns’ family. A lot of them have seen it. We had a week-long run in Austin just a week ago, and a lot of them came to see it, and a lot of his friends came, so I think they were satisfied with it.

 

Kelli: “Yeah, and when it comes to viewers and, God knows I’ve heard enough of it, not everybody’s going to be happy about everything.”

 

Joe: “Yeah, that’s the case. For those interested in Burns and Rondo or them together, it’s the same, you know? And I hope it has an appeal beyond just horror fans too. I was saying that telling a truthful human story will resonate with other folks. I don’t think you have to be a horror fan for it to…”

 

Kelli: “It’s a human interest piece.”

 

Joe: “Yeah, yeah. But it helps if you’re a horror fan.”

 

Kelli: “I get exactly what you were trying to do with the film.”

 

Joe: “Oh, yes. Thank you. It’s practical, and people will learn about this guy who had a lot of talent and happened to have a strange twist of fate with an odd appearance that they otherwise would not have. Because I mean, that was a long time ago. Of course, anybody involved with movies is interesting to me, but as someone interested in medical oddities and stuff, I find that interesting, you know? The whole him coping with this illness, making the best of it. And it’s about love.

 

He seems like he was a great guy. That’s what I come away with. He was a great guy. People liked him. He had that moment, which was written about in interviews with him. He said that he could have hidden away from the public and their reaction, but he chose instead to embrace it. He was brave in that way, and then people liked him. They wanted hiwantedhaps because of those flaws that he was flawed in appearance but just such a kind person.

 

Kelli: “Right, and they both have earned their place in film history, especially the horror genre.”

 

Joe: “Yeah, I think so.”

 

Kelli: “Because I mean, Burns. Come on. He was brilliant.”

 

Joe: “Yeah. He’s the guy who designed the Leatherface mask and collected all those bones. The bones that he collected on Chainsaw show up again in The Hills Have Eyes, The Howling. I don’t know as much about Re-Animator, but he had a strong belief about the art director and the place of the art director, which was that art direction should be invisible. You should not be looking at it and saying, “Oh, that’s great what they made. I see what they made.” Instead, you should just have a creepy feeling from it all. It should affect you emotionally, not where you see great art, you know?

 

Kelli: “Well, I agree. It’s subtle but powerful.”

 

Joe: “Yeah, yeah, and I think that’s the deal with Chainsaw and why that film has a rabid fan base. Well, I mean, there are still movies being turned out. I think Chainsaw comes down to Tobe Hooper, Bob Burns for the look, and Wayne Bell for the sound. It’s nice and eerie too. It goes well with what Bob gives you visually.

 

And what’s weird is Bob Burns was not a horror film fan. He was the master of making this stuff, but he was not a fan.”

 

Kelli: “Well, nobody is perfect [laughter].”

 

Joe: “Yeah. I think, yeah, that’s just Bob, and as I said, I knew him in the last years of his life, so I wasn’t a great friend or anything, but I knew who he was, so I think that was important with making the film too.”

 

Kelli: “Right, right. Well, I hope it really introduces the two of them to a new generation.

 

Joe: “Right, yeah. There are just so many Chainsaw fans out there, you know? I have gone to conventions and seen families all dressed up like Leatherface. Their little kid dressed up too. Mom and dad and a little kid. So it’s kind of amazing.

 

Kelli: “Both of them have made a major contribution. It’s good that it’s finally being talked about.”

 

Joe: “Yeah, and I think Bob deserves to be talked about more, you know?”

 

Kelli: “Right. Well, they both deserve it.”

 

Joe: “Yeah, yeah. Both, yeah, both of them. I would be very pleased if someone turned around and made a live-action feature of Rondo, just Rondo’s story to be told as a feature film, not as a documentary.”

 

Kelli: “You are a filmmaker. Why don’t you make one?”

 

Joe: “Yeah. Why don’t I? Well, I’ve already done this story. It’s going to take somebody with a bigger budget. I made the Rondo film. It’s the Rondo and Bob film. Yeah, but I would be pleased if someone did that. More of his life could be explored, but the basic story is in our film.”

 

Kelli: “So, do you always tend to lean towards making documentaries?”

 

Joe: “It just kind of happened. I have a background in both journalism and fiction writing. I have a degree in creative writing, and I wrote about the film for a really long time. I did this film about Gary Kent. Gary Kent is the inspiration for Brad Pitt’s stuntman character in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. I knew him well. I’d written about him, and I became friends with him, and I kept saying somebody needed to do a documentary about this guy. And he was coming out with a memoir, and I realized, “Oh, maybe that guy is me.” And so I jumped in and had to really teach myself to do it, and it took a while because of that.”

 

I’ve just kind of always been in that line between the facts and the fiction which is why, I think, the second film is more of the recreations, part out of necessity, but also because that is of interest to me. I’ve told people that maybe the next film would be a straight-up feature and not documentary, but I don’t know what that film will be. I’m writing a book right now.”

 

Kelli: “What about?”

 

Joe: “It’s called The Contortionist, and it’s about the Ross sisters. You’ve probably seen the video on YouTube.”

 

Kelli: “Oh, I know exactly what you’re talking about.”

 

Joe: “Okay, they sing a song called Solid Potato Salad. It was from the 1940s, and they did a contortion act. It’s from a film called Broadway Rhythm. It went viral. And I set out to tell their story, which is pretty amazing what happened, and I finished the first draft of it, and I’m kind of in the beginning stage.

 

Kelli: “I love human interest stories, and I love weird stuff. Well, I mean, you know, weird is good. But I’ll definitely check it out.”

 

Joe: “Right now, I’m doing revisions. Revision is what people don’t realize takes so much time. It’s where the story comes out, and it was the same with the film. In our editing office, we had color-coded Post-it Notes, one color for Ronda, one color for Bob, and then some of them that were split between two colors when the stories intersected and putting the film together; I had a goal of making sure that you did not stay on one man’s story too long, that you flipped over to the other guy. So I constantly moved those Post-it Notes around, rearranging things, because that’s just what you have to do, and that’s the revision process right there.”

 

Kelli: “I understand.”

 

Rondo and Bob is out now and is an interesting documentary that gives us insights into the minds and lives of two men that you need to know more about. Please visit the film’s official websites for updates and more and follow the movie on Facebook and Twitter.

 

 

Joe O’Connell, Bob Burns, Rondo Hatton

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